Jon Bernthal’s path to becoming an actor was less about following a dream than about getting out of a nightmare. Before he was The Punisher or other streetwise characters in The Wolf of Wall Street and The Walking Dead, Jon was a kid with a nose for trouble and a rebelliousness that pulled toward violence. It was heading in a bad direction but thanks to an acting teacher, a journey to Russia and Chekhov’s The Seagull, Jon turned it around. Marc and Jon also talk about his love of making “pure theater” in New York, how he transitioned into TV and movies without compromising his vision, and what happened when the darkness of his early life came back. This episode is sponsored by Hulu and Capterra.